Men in Nursery

Men in Nursery

by: Faye M - 05-01-06 14:47

i have worked in a nursery before for work experience and although i have only just turned 16 i have very strong views on the system, i believe that there are not enough males working in the system and i feel that my coulegues would prefer to have the male species around, mit is also more beneficial to the childrens development to see both the male and female gender working along side for future references.

by: Les Abel

I am a male and have been working in childcare for over 2 years now and love my job. I am also working with my local council (Rotherham) on a project called men who dare....childcare. This provides support for men working in or considering childcare as a career. The scheme is very successful and would do wonders to raise the numbers of men in childcare if it was implemented in other areas. The current figures show that men make up just 1% of the childcare workforce (day care trust website) the government has set a target to raise this figure to 6% but why stop at 6% wouldn't there be uproar if these figures related to women’s place in any other workforce? And exactly what are they doing to achieve this target? Not a lot from what I can see. What is needed is the government to encourage all councils to set up schemes similar to the one we have to provide support and encouragement to all men. The government also needs to support this in a similar way to the recruitment drive run for teaching. Including nationwide advertising and some kind of incentive and reward (financial would be nice) for men who do dare similar to the golden hello for teaching. Only then will we see equality in the profession. This equality is important for our children’s sake

Men in Nursery - 16-01-06 10:30

by: kinder

I am a male who has worked in care for 18 years. I have also worked as a care manager for older people but returned to child care three years ago to take up post as a Business Manager in a private day nursery. We have provision for 60 children and my role is both challenging and rewarding. Its a great shame that there is not as many male nursery nurses as there are male nurses in Hospitals.
During my careeer I have completed NVQ 4 a BTEC in social services management and the NVQ RMA, I am currntly studying NVQ 5. I have only met one other bloke attending college and he was a nursery manager/owner. However while attending the SureStart Business Succes for Childcare training I bumped into quite a few chaps. One was a nursery manager and the rest were owners. The nursery nurse image as a career needs to be seen as a developing role with wider scope for specialising; for example into management, SENCO, practioning and child care business support. With the onset of so many SureStart centres providing competition. It makes good sence to employ a child care business manager whether they be male or female.

Men in Nursery - 19-01-06 10:34

by: NeilC

I am glad to see most people are positive about men being in a child caring environment. I am currently training to become a child carer alongside my wife who is already a childminder.Any advice or information i could get would be greatfully recieved.

Men in Nursery - 26-01-06 09:34

by: michaeld

Well! This certainly is a hot topic! Personally i think it's great to see such a diversity of opinions here and I'm glad that this issue is in the forefront of peoples minds. I've been a qualified Nursery Nurse for the last five years and have worked in a Day Nursery and now work in the NHS...... and yes, I am a man. My personal experience working in a nursery as the sole male has been nothing but positive. I have felt valued by parents and staff and strongly believe that the children have benefited from having a man to relate to. As a profession we spend a lot of time and effort ensuring that hte children we care for experience life to the full, however I feel we are being grossly negligent when we deprive them from making stong, positive, relationships with open, caring men. In saying this I do not mean that we need feminised men in this field. The way in which men care for children is different from women and this should not be something to be shyed away from. There is nothing that a man brings to the role that a women cannot, but it is imeasurably important that children see a man doing it. I am dedicated to making progress with this issue and have been researching a number of localised projects in England and Scotland and am keen to hear from people who share this interest. Therefore I would like to hear from any of the guys and girls on this message board, (researchers, Nursery Nurses etc) with a view to making a difference in this area. My email is michaeldolling at hotmail dot co dot uk. Please email me

Men in Nursery - 26-01-06 11:46

by: michaeld

Ok, I've just read through all the posts on this subject and I think they are really revealing. Especially those from wellinever. I'm really glad she voiced her opiions as this is a real issue within our society. The truth of the matter is that numbers of convicted sexual offenders is not representative of the risk that men present in a childcare setting. Cases of female sexual abuse on children are only recently being uncovered but it does happen. The point we need to see is that these cases are a tiny minority of people of both sexes. Obviously this means we need to be stringent in our checks (which I have to say we are not at the momment as people still slip through the net) but more importantly all childcare workers need to be open to the possibility of reporting abuse within the nursery when ever and who ever is involved. This is our best chance of truely safeguarding children. However if we start discouraging or excluding men from the caring environment, the damage we are doing to the children, by restricting their opportunities is far greater than I think we acknowledge. If we are to bring about change in society we have to start with the children, and that is the wonderful thing about this work. If they do not see men as caring trustworthy individuals how can we ever expect them to form these relationships with men in the future. The implications are far reaching and I think it is time we saw beyond the media hype around peadophilia and started to except men (such as the ones on this site) as individuals. My respect goes out to Bensinger, Les Abel, jrmassey_7, smoore, joshuajones, Mark W, rbyoung, FunkyMonkey, johnnygee, nannynick, philnneb, johnr and Pirbright.

Men in Nursery - 26-01-06 18:10

by: daniel.harvey

i am a man currently working in child care and LOVE the job i love what i do and get lots of job satisfaction and i also agree more men are needed

Men in Nursery - 03-02-06 18:07

by: jrmassey_7

well, it has been along time since i first post my comment on here, and i would like to say thank you to everyone so fair who has add to it since, since moving from the school nursery to the other end of the school, for career experience, i would like to say i don't regert going into child education, i wish now to take it up to a degree level. all i can say since working with child i have seen a positive responds from parents, collegues and child alike, Keep your hard work up people,
Jason

Men in Nursery - 09-02-06 16:36

by: LouiseD

Does anybody have any views about why men don't go into child care professions? Opinions from men would be particularly helpful. Please only reply if you don't mind me using your message in my dissertation!
Thanks.

Men in Nursery - 13-02-06 09:36

by: joshuajones

Hi Louise

It is simply a case of economics. Nursery Nurses pay is poor, as we all know. In no way does it reflect the important job that we do. Salaries for the most part are ok as a second salary, but not as a main earner. It is refreshing to see that there are more men coming into senior positions within nurseries, but that is because the pay is better.

Men in Nursery - 13-02-06 12:51

by: toystoyou

Hi
I'm not in childcare but I just wanted to comment on your post.
My daughter is in key stage 1 and has a male teacher. The whole class adores him. And they have all benefitted from having him in their lives this year especially my daughter. Her father isn't with us and through her male teacher she is learning how to be around a man all day. She has learnt a lot from having a male teacher and thus a male influence in her life. I think more men should be childcare and primary education especially now as more and more children are being raised without fathers.
Hope you're all having a good day.
Julie
www.toys-to-you.co.uk
Toys with Integrity

Men in Nursery - 20-02-06 16:15

by: iggyfishtank

The influence of parents is a key issue. If we were to implement every prejudice parents had then where would we be? We would be reinforcing the idea that the man is a danger. Nothing more. It is not parental choice it is only reinforcing wrong and outdated ideas.

If a parent said they didnt want a man to change a nappy or take a child to the toilet and we agreed what message are we sending? If they said i dont want that black woman to work with my child would we indulge those prejudices?
Could someone please tell me the difference.

I also do not agree that there is some double checking needed. Well, if it were possible at all in the first place. Until a 'minority report' style device is availiable for seeing the future you will never be able to tell what someone is going to do in the future. What 'double checks' can be done?

Men in Nursery - 20-02-06 16:19

by: iggyfishtank

...oh, and i am a man doing a degree in the early years. The course has been going for 5 years and i will be the only man to complete it from start to finnish. One joined @ the 2nd year and two dropped out after the first year about 3 years ago.

The reason not many men take it up. A mixture of not being able to do the job through 'parental choice' and economics. It does not pay well. One advantage for men in the early years is a 'glass elevator'. It gives them a rapid rise to the top of the profession and that is why you tend to find men working in management roles and leading settings....and they are good at their job of course.

My dissertation is on attitudes to men in the early years so i am going to be stealing your thoughts...from the forum obviously.

Men in Nursery - 27-02-06 12:59

by: AngelHelp

I have to say in my 11 years of being qualified i've worked with 3 very amazing men through the nurseries that i ahve worked in. One of them was so poppular with the children that i would be reading a story and he would come in to work to say hi and the children would ask if they could go and say hi to him.
I think that it is fantastic as was said in a thread above so many children are growing up without fathers or male influences in there live that they have to learn from somewhere.

But there is a said siad to this, when i was training there was a very lovey guy on our course and he loved his children and showed this in his work and the activities that he planned during placement. he helped my on so many occassions then one day he came in and was showing everyone his course work on a messy activity that he had done and the girls in the class lauched at him calling him all sorts he got so upset that he left 1 year into the nneb and never returned. I still keep in contact but he now works in an office and he hates his job.

Just goes to show it takes one women to say something and all hell breaks lose. We need to be more supportive and welcoming not watching all the time.

Men in Nursery - 12-03-06 17:26

by: Daveyt

I am a male about to start as a nursery assistant. So far ive been working as a volunteer in a reception class at a primary school. I absolutly love it, and the parents love that they have a male working with their children. Children need some sort of positive male role model in their lives, as some dont have this at home. In summary, ive found something that im really good at and enjoy everyday. More men should get into this profession!

Men in Nursery - 14-03-06 22:20

by: jimt

Hi, I believe men have a vital role to play in the nursery setting, not just for the children but also to a new dimension to the staff room and to bring fresh ideas to the planning. It has been proven that men and women think differently. This means that having men involved can only add to the diversity of the nursery setting. I have only recently achieved an HNC in childcare and during my training (30 months) I recieved nothing but support from tutors,nursery staff,parents, my own family and the children in my placement really enjoyed having a man in the nursery. So I am fully committed to encouraging other men into childcare because of my positive experiences.

Men in Nursery - 23-03-06 11:20

by: FootieFan

WOW, I have just come across this topic by chance by searching the 'net' for opinions of men in childcare, very interesting. I would love to work in Nursery School, but don't feel that it is something that I have an option to do. My wife has worked in the same Nursery now for around 15 years and I have always joked that I would like her job! I am CRB checked and have helped at my oldest son's school and also helped with Open Days, Fun Days and other events at my wife's Nursery. Her boss has even said that she would employ me there if I got qualified! However, I worry about what parents might think and whether this could cause problems. 'wellinever' brought up comments which, although offensive in some ways, I am sure many people who put their children into Nursery would agree with, and that is the worry. I would not want to be the cause of bad publicity of concerns of parents at any Nursery, and the 'teasing' you might get whilst at college etc would also deter me from feeling comfortable doing it. I am very comfortable with children, and have 2 myself, both of which I was the primary carer for whilst my wife went back to work at the Nursery. I collect my wife each day and interact with many of the children there, some of which always approach me when I arrive. I do think I could do the job, but have never followed things up due to what I think other people's opinions would be. Also, I am now 35 years old, and whilst it would seem no problem in your 20's, I do think that if I started this now, I would certainly be looked upon as some sort of 'perve' and I believe that notion would always be there. Nobody questions a male teacher who has a reception class at primary school, so why indeed should there be a problem for men dealing with children a couple of years younger. Does ayone out there think there should be an age limit for a man to do the job?

Men in Nursery - 23-03-06 14:42

by: joshuajones

You are in a slightly more difficult position than a younger man but don't be put off. If you were a Bio- Physicist earning 100k a year and wanting to come into childcare for little over the minimum wage, all sorts of alarm bells would probably ring !! However if you have been at home with your children and not doing some high paid, high powered job, enjoyed your children and joining in with their activities you have a good grounding for childcare. You would not have to go to college, you could do your NVQ which is work based, you don't need to be in paid work to do this as long as you can get a placement, voluntarily, to be able to be judged on your performance. Find a training provider and ask your wifes boss if she would take you on as a volunteer or as a paid trainee. If you really want to do it, then go for it, you've got another 35 years left to work so you might as well do something you want to do and enjoy.
Good luck

Men in Nursery - 25-03-06 07:04

by: FootieFan

Thanks for your encouragement, it's certainly food for thought. I wonder if

Men in Nursery - 28-03-06 10:54

by: widgit

I have been trying to employ a male memeber of staff for sometime now. I interviewed one man for the last position that came up, but he wasn't right for our team which was a shame. I really think there should be more men in childcare.

Men in Nursery - 28-03-06 22:07

by: FootieFan

My wife's boss has said she would be happy to take me on for my placement/experience as she knows me so well, so I am giving serious thought to obtaining a Level 2 NVQ. I do wonder through how long I could work in childcare as I am already 35 and a man may be less accepted by parents once he gets to 40+, I'm not sure. My wife thinks I may be better to move onto a Teaching/Classroom Assistant position in a school for the long run, but I have always found the moulding years of 2-5 the most rewarding with bringing up our own children. Our now 7 year old has been through my wife's Nursery, and our soon to be 2 year old will start soon also. I shall be doing some serious thinking anyway. Not haveing to attend College regularly makes it more appealing as I wouldn't have to deal with the remarks and sniggers from younger women doing their qualification.

Men in Nursery - 29-03-06 08:32

by: newsetting

Good luck! Childcare needs more committed, caring individuals such as yourself regardless of sex, age or anything else. I really hope you go for it!

Men in Nursery - 29-03-06 11:12

by: joshuajones

parents will see a dedicated, mature gentle man looking after their children regardless of your age. Stop trying to talk yourself out of it. We need more men in childcare. Good luck

Men in Nursery - 25-04-06 15:14

by: hullcoll

We have just had a staff meeting at Hull College and we want to try to attract more men into the profession.
Can you offer any suggestions that you feel would encourage men into the profession.
Linda

Men in Nursery - 28-04-06 19:58

by: Skyenet

Hopefuly my experience will prompt more men into childcare. I am a single parent with a 7 year old daughter and have always got on well with children. I tried to help out at her local school but they mainly viewed parents as fund raisers. I then signed up for a NC course in Early Years Education and Childcare. I was the only man out of nearly 60 students that started and at 50 I was 15 years older than the next oldest person. On both accounts it was daunting but I firmly believed that men should be more involved in chidcare. I can understand men (especially older men) feeling they would be regarded as pervs but you just have to show that you are in the job becuase you have a genuine interest and concern about children. I am not shown any preference at college and treated just as well as any of the other students. I am on placement at local nurseries 2 days a week and pleased at how I get on with the children. They appreciate a male role model around and despite my age I am reasonably fit and active so get involved in all activities with enthusiasm. and energy. The staff at nursery have been very supportive and make me feel valued. I will have a go at anything and muck in and this is appreciated. I was a bit self conscious during activities at college and in nursery such as singing, group work and dancing but just had a go and soon felt more at ease and relaxed. The parents seem to have accepted me and the way I interact with the children and work in the Nursery and most talk away to me just like any other member of the staff. I have learned a lot in the last year and had a lot of opportunity to carry out tasks and activities. I have found the course and paperwork hard going balancing it with looking after my daughter. She has had to go to pre and after school care which means I see less of her and then I am busy on work at nightime. This means that I may well leave going on the HNC for a few years and try and get some part time work when I finish my course soon.

Men in Nursery - 28-04-06 22:01

by: ROADRAGE

Hi
Even though I am only a student doing a child care course I have found that men are extreamley good with children and the children like to have a male influence around them. Men (no offence ladies but) can be more patient and have more of an orthorative preasence about them.

Men in Nursery - 30-04-06 18:05

by: paulpg2000

Hi, I am a man in a nursery. I am the only male member of staff in the nursery. None of the parents or staff don't mind have a male member of staff. For any man thinking of doing childcare just go in the profssion and do it. You will enjoy it. Thanks.

Men in Nursery - 10-05-06 09:44

by: anne_marie

Hey!! i am also doin a childcare course at college and there is not 1 male in my class!! 1 day when the college was doin their inrolling for the new NC classes a young lad walked in and some people in my class were dead aginst it and were laughing and that. after half an hour a lad jus walked out!!! i think is was bad and that the college tutors should hav done something to support the lad!! i think more men should be in childcare as children need both a good male and female role model!!!

Men in Nursery - 01-06-06 11:40

by: jennied

hello. i am a researcher for a tv company and we'd like to make a warm and sensitive documentary about men who work in childcare. Hopefully it would challenge some people's prejudices and reveal what a beneficial influence male nannies/teachers/childminders can have. We're only at the initial stages of research, but we're hoping to talk to men who work with young children (with no obligation at all). I'd be really interested to talk to any men who work as childminders/nannies/au pairs/primary school teachers or any families who employ a male au pair or nanny to look after their children to hear about their positive expereinces. Many thanks! Jennie (01865 297220 jdickson@landmarkfilms.com)

Men in Nursery - 01-06-06 20:40

by: FootieFan

Hi, just wanted to thank everyone for the encouragement. I have now applied to do an NVQ2 Children's Care, Learning and Developement 0-16 course, have been accepted for funding, and am looking forward to starting my voluntary work in the Nursery. I was recently asked to help out for 2 days and thoroughly enjoyed my time there. And I have been asked back to cover a member of staff for another week in June, so all is going well. The kids like me being there, and the staff have also commented that it is good having a male influence in the Nursery also. I would recommend it to other men.

Men in Nursery - 02-06-06 16:06

by: NurseryInsurance

That's great news.

I hope it all works out for you FootieFan (and that it doesn't clash with an England game!)

Men in Nursery - 03-06-06 21:48

by: Ayse

As a nursery owner i am very much in favour of hiring male nursery nurses. I have previously had male students who were very good with the children and they loved him a lot. I think its good to have a male around, as the children need to have alternative "teachers" and role models.
My student however got kicked off his course because he was very lazy with the coursework!

Come on guys !

Men in Nursery - 11-06-06 23:46

by: Skyenet

Just passed my NC in Early Years Education and Childcare :-) Being a single parent I found it hard going timewise but was the only person on the course to never miss a day, nor be late, at college or on placement. Had a go at the Higher exam in Childcare last Thursday so hope I passed that as well. Got the chance to help out a my young daughter's primary school and my last placement have said they would love to have me back any time I can make it. Really need to do the HNC to get paid employement but voluntary will do at the moment.

Men in Nursery - 02-07-06 18:42

by: paulpg2000

Can I just comment on what Ayse as written. I am a male nursery nurse and not all men are lazy in doing coursework or working in a nursery. I worked hard on my Level 3 and may be harder at nursery by doing extra duties. Thanks.

Men in Nursery - 04-07-06 22:39

by: Franciska

I am in my final year of a MA in Integrated Provision for Children & Families. My dissertation is entitled "What attracts men into the early years sector". Can all the male early years practitioners out there please let me know why you are working in early years - what attracted you to it in the first place, what your job title is, how long have you been in your role and what qualifications you have or are undertaking.
many thanks.

Men in Nursery - 05-07-06 21:33

by: paulpg2000

What attrated me in early years was that I like children. It is a rewarding career to do like watching children do things for the first time. i.e Potty training. I also feel that I am a male role model for some of the children without fathers. I do hope I have a affect on a childs life as well and have helped them in the development and well being. I hope this helps you out. Thanks.

Men in Nursery - 05-07-06 21:36

by: paulpg2000

I forgott to add my job title. My job title is Nursery Nurse and the qualifactions I have got is NVQ Level 3. Thanks.

Men in Nursery - 08-07-06 09:38

by: Franciska

Thanks Paulpg2000

Men in Nursery - 28-07-06 00:00

by: beecj

I'm all in favour of male nursery nurses.
As part of the Equal Opportunities policy, as professional nursery nurses, we actively encourage children to explore play equipment, role play, etc whether it's considered a typical male or female role.We constantly teach the children and parents to accept the child's freedom of choice.
I don't see why this has to change once you join the adult word! I would expect both men and women to be professional whilst working with children.

Men in Nursery - 17-08-06 10:49

by: sam kelly

Historically men have not chosen a career in childcare due to it's low profile and poor salaries. it has often been seen as a vocation and not a profession.
As the qualifications and skills required become more recognised and people appreciate the impact those who work with children have on the 'next generation' I think we will begin to see an increase in men working with children. This can only be a positive as it is important to have a balance. Sam (female).

Men in Nursery - 26-09-06 22:13

by: smurf

I had a two men that started college with me and one of them stayed on the qualify.

I thought he was very brave in a large class with so many girls, he did very well and is more than likely to be just as good with children as any woman.

I think more men should have the confidence to do it if it is what they want to do. If a person has a love for child care nothing should stop them if it is what they enjoy.

Men in Nursery - 07-10-06 00:29

by: Skyenet

I found it quite daunting on my college course as I was the only man in an intake of 58 students and also the oldest student at 50. However I am glad I stuck out the course and had great support from both college and placement staff. I passed my NC and also my higher. As a single parent of my young daughter I feel I need to wait a while before going onto an HNC course as it demands a lot of time and effort. I think childcare is the most rewarding job I have ever done. Not financially as I don't get paid as I am now doing voluntary work at my local nursery, but because of the great feeling helping children develop while learning about the world and enjoying themselves. Many children don't have male role models in their life and I try to make sure I provide a positive role model encouraging children to not develop traditional male/female stereotyping. I find interacting with the children so enjoyable and they are just like sponges soaking up what is heppening around them. They keep my active both mentally and physically and I don't feel my age at all. I am taken part in a local promotion of men into childcare and hope this help encourage more men to take up chiildcare. At the moment males only make up 2% of the total chilcare workforce in my local authority so plenty room for improvement :-)

Men in Nursery - 05-11-06 14:17

by: Franciska

Skyenet, Thanks for info. Only 2 men have responded to my question since the summer. If there are any more male early years practitioners out there please "have your say". Many thanks from Franciska

Men in Nursery - 23-11-06 14:55

by: martin72

I am a 34 year old male and have been working in childcare fot just over three years now, and currently doing my NVQ level 3 in Childrens Care Learning & Development, and in the last three years I have been the only male where i work, and when i attend trainging / college i am the only male, its great to see 6 male students at Ashton Six form college studying childcare.

Men in Nursery - 01-03-07 15:54

by: nunulboro

I tend to think the prejudice of men working in the child care sector is due to the prejudices of the parents!
We have one male working with us and have had parents request he does not change children's nappies, however these same parents were ok with a man changing nappies when he was 'gay!'
The labels that go with the job in this industry are enough to put people off, and then you have the poor pay, and working conditions on top!!
Is it any wonder it is female dominated if your not doing it for the love of the children then why do it at all??

Men in Nursery - 11-03-07 16:34

by: iggyfishtank

I hope you told them this was not possible. By agreeing to stop men changing nappies you are essentialy saying that, yes they are more of a risk and that they are a danger. If there is a risk of someone abusing the children then the policy needs to change for everyone.

Men in Nursery - 11-03-07 16:47

by: joshuajones

iggyfishtank
in principal I agree with you.But, at the risk of sounding contraversial, do we not have a responsibility to work in partnership with parents, and try to respect parents wishes ? As an adult, if you were to go to hospital and did not want to be examined by a male doctor, or a male not wanting to be examined by a female doctor, you have the right to request a same sex as you doctor. As children, this choice is taken away, do parents not have the right to protect their children from someone of the opposite sex changing their children too. What about religious preferences ?

Men in Nursery - 11-03-07 17:39

by: iggyfishtank

If you agree with the principal then you should put it into practice. If we change your reply around a bit to show you that sexist views are the same as old fashioned racism.

‘if you were to go to hospital and did not want to be examined by a BLACK doctor, or a WHITE PERSON not wanting to be examined by a BLACK doctor, you have the right to request a same RACE as you doctor ’

I know you cant actually request someone to be the same race but it shows how the argument would look when changed to black people.
If you have a looney racist parent who said I don’t want my child nappy to be changed by that black person as I think black people are more of a danger you wouldn’t go with that would you? As I said, by accepting that request you are saying that, yes they are more of a danger. You are also breaking equality laws by changing that persons job role solely on the basis of that person sex – not ability or anything else. You are stopping that person doing the job for no reason whatsoever apart from prejudice. You also say ‘do parents not have the right to protect their children’. Where has this idea of protection come from. In the way you have phrased that you, even now, are saying there is more of a threat from men. If they have gone through the CRB check and you have no concerns over their practice then you have no reason to stop them doing a part of their job. The doctor ananolgy is a choice you can make and has nothing to do with the idea that you think a male doctor will abuse you. You may feel more confortable talking and issue through with someone of the same sex. Nappy changing is completely different thing.

Religious preferences are the same. Could you please tell me which religion forbids men to change nappies? I hope you are not getting cultural and religious ideas mixed up.

Men in Nursery - 11-03-07 19:21

by: joshuajones

I am not saying it's right, I am saying do we not have a duty to respect parents wishes. After all we do things on a daily basis that may not be in the childs best interest, but fit in with the parents wishes. For example only letting a child sleep for half an hour when it clearly needs more, like witholding a food from a child for no other reason than the parent wants it, potty training before a child is ready and so on. We allow parents to control these issues but then say they cannot ask a member of staff not to undertake intimate care, because it offends our sensibilities. I am in no way saying I agree, I have employed several men in my nurseries and have encountered this problem more than once. How do you refuse a parental request from a mother whose child has been abused by a man, that only women change her child. There has to be an element of reasonableness in our decisions, and not a blind following of policy. Every parent, child and case is different. I do not believe that men pose a risk to children, and race is a different issue. I am simply talking about working in partnership with parents.

Men in Nursery - 12-03-07 22:39

by: iggyfishtank

Bit long but it needs o be. This issue cannot be discussed in soundbites.

As you missed the point completely I will put it again. We have the right to respect parents wishes but where they are prejudiced you do not have to take them into account at all. I agree race is a separate issue but it was an analogy to show you how crazy your point was. You would not respect the wishes of a parent who didn’t want a black person to work with their child for the only reason being that they diddnt trust black people – because that is just wrong. It seems., from your information given, that your idea of partnership is doing whatever the parents say. That is not partnership. You should always do what’s in the best interests of the child and explain to the parents why you are doing it – namely as your looking out for the best interests of the child and it is our job as the people who work with children to do what is best for the child not for the parent. If they want to go elsewhere that is there choice but we cannot be held over a barrel by parents otherwise they run the nursery and the people with the training and the knowledge don’t. It is also our role to educate parents to make the right decisions and to understand why we make decisions –as they are in the best interests of the child. If you withold food from a child for no reason then I don’t know why you are still in the early years profession to be honest and if you don’t follow your own policy then, quite frankly, I don’t know why you bother writing one in the first place. I mean, what’s the point of writing something that looks all nice but you don’t actually believe in and are willing to ignore if there is a bit of resistance to it. I agree with you that decisions should be made with an element of reasonableness (not sure that’s a word but ill let you off as my grammar and spelling is awful) but it is not reasonable to stop a man doing his job because of no reason other than prejudice or ignorance.

I will show how partnership should be done using your example of a mother who has had a child abused by a man.

JJ = Joshua Jones
P = Parent.

JJ: Hello, welcome to your first day for you and little Child A.
P: Hello, there is one thing I am worried about.
JJ: Oh go on then, we like to work in partnership with parents to allay any fears they have.
P: I see you have a man working for you.
JJ: Ah yes, Mr X. He’s very good with babies, he’s got over 10 years experience and a masters in early Years Education…I don’t know why he works here! Ha Ha
P: ha ha…erm, well..the thing is…you see little Child A was abused my a male and, I don’t want her to be put in danger again.
JJ: Well, there is no chance of that here, he has passed his CRB check (as have all our staff) and all our parents love him. He hasn’t had a bad word said about him in over ten years. Of course we cant do anything to change his job description as that would
1. Go against the Sexual Discriminatin act 1973 ( I think – the date I mean)
2. Punnish him for something he had nothing to do with.
3. Actually admit that he may be a danger simply because he is man, as this would actually do.
4. Show Child A, who had appalling treatment by one person who happened to be man, that all men are something to be afraid of and should not be involved with young children as they somehow pose a danger.
5. Not giver Child A a different role model of men that it so clearly needs having gone through such a terrible thing by a person that happened to be a man.
6. . Make a clear seperation of roles that men and women hold in the workplace and in society which is something we do not want to do.
7. It is also in the best interests of the child due to the points I have made and also we fell children should have other male role models in their life.
8. Also in this country we are innocent until proven guilty so to take any action would be unlawful and he could sue me if he wanted…not that he would ha ha ha.
P: But arnt men more of a danger.
JJ: Well, statistically yes but the vast majority of the abuse by men is carried out in the home on their own children and a man hasn’t gone to jail for abuse in a nursery since the late 1960’s. So I think you are quite safe, even if you look at the numbers in black and white.
P: Well, im still not sure.
JJ: If you were to put your child in a different setting that agreed to your request then it would not be acting in the best interests of the child and that’s what we both want, don’t we?
P: Well, yes….
JJ: Would it reassure you to know that we always have 2 people in our nappy room when changing children – for the safety of all our children and staff members? That been our policy for years.
P: Oh, yes…that’s fine.
JJ: You see, if we feel there is a danger then there is a loophole that anyone could get through. We feel that loophole should be closed for all people.
P: Ah now I see why you do it.
JJ: Indeed, now if you have any other concerns then please let us know...whether its about a member of staff or an element of our practice.
P: OK, will do. Thanks for being so open and honest and telling me why you do things that way, I diddnt know that before but now I have all the information I feel much better.
JJ: Its ok, any time. You can stay with Child A for this morning if you want, just to make sure they settle in ok. Its understandable you may have felt that way but in the long run it would not have been the best result for everyone.
P: (thinking) Oh, that’s better, I was so worried, but now im much happier.




It is not about offending sensibilities. You are trying to change the issue. Its equality and being innocent until proven otherwise…in fact its not even about being under suspicion in the 1st place. It about the, frankly wrong, idea that men are more of a danger to children in early years settings. No matter how anyone tries to dress it up that is the issue. We do not have to blindly follow what parents think, we can advise them that in our professional opinion that it is too early for a child to start potty training (to use another example). We could also advise them that in our professional opinion it would b a waste of their child’s time and could make them more stressed about the potty and actually make it more difficult in the long run. Its about saying, and doing, what is the right thing – not what is the path of least resistance.

In your reply (and anyone else who fancies a go) I need you to tell me why we should treat innocent people who have done nothing wrong differently to other people who have also done nothing wrong.

Men in Nursery - 12-03-07 23:36

by: Skyenet

May have been long, but well written and covered the issues very well. I have copied and pasted it for reference. Thanks Iain

Men in Nursery - 13-03-07 09:09

by: hatthar

Wow, Iggyfishtank, that is an amazing answer, I agree with you totally.

What is the point of us doing all this training if we don't advise the parents of the care for the child.

Prejudice is a nasty word, but is exactly what is happening here for these men in early years situations. I feel we should stand up for what we know is right!!!

I looked up Prejudice in the dictionary and this is what it said "preconceived unreasonable opinion" Prejudicial - detrimental; causing harm; injury." By not standing up to these issues this is exactly what we are doing to the child.

Well done, Iggyfishtank.

Men in Nursery - 13-03-07 16:31

by: joshuajones

You too are missing the point. The Equal Opps Act has been put into place to eliminate predjudice I agree, and as such is a good act. But the law allows choice.
We live in a democratic society where the state does not dictate to us, and allows us choice in everything we do within the constraints of the law.
Once we have a voice, we have the right to choose, where we go to school, what hospital we attend, who treats us and so on.
A nursery in a high ethnic minority area has the right to advertise and employ an ethnic minority carer, and not be in breach of the law.
A disabled female who requires intimate care has the right to advertise for a female only carer and not be in breach of the law.
Parents of a disabled child have the right to ask for a same sex carer and not be in breach of the law.
The law recognises that there has to be flexibility in it's regulations - Why can't you ?
The law recognises that parents have the ultimate responsibilty for their children and to decide what is right and wrong for them. The law only steps in if their decisions put their child at significant risk of harm.
The children we look after do not have a voice, they are the youngest and most vunerable in our society. Parents have the right to decide what they consider to be the best for their child, whether we agree with it or not.
What gives us the right to overide a parents choice because we don't agree with it ?
What gives us the right to ignore a parents wish to choose who looks after their child ?
Why do we feel that we have the right to take away the rights of parents of this silent and vunerable group.
The law allows flexibility - why can't you ?
CRB checks do not guarantee that the person involved is not a risk, male or female, as the news is constantly pointing out to us, the man that was responsible for the Soham murders had been CRB'd - that worked then didn't it !! You cannot say with 100% certainty that evryone in the nursery is a good person - life is not like that. The police and home office are currently investigating allegations that people who have committed crimes in other countries are taking up jobs that require police clearance, and there is no criminal activity being flagged up because it took place in another country and the systems are not in place to transfer that info to the Metropolitan Police.
Sadly no one can ever be 100% sure a person of any sex is safe.

Men in Nursery - 13-03-07 20:57

by: iggyfishtank

Right your premise is wrong. The law does not allow choice at all. Its like saying you can murder the child as long as the parent asks you to. Murder is illegal as is changing someone’s job role. Exactly your point says about the choice being within the law. Putting a man (or woman) out of doing a role simply because they are one sex is illegal. No choice, no flexibility. The idea that this is some sort of choice issue is muddying the waters. It is about equality and being fair to everyone – including the child. Am afraid you are wrong in thinking the state does not dictate to us. It does in our everyday life in the little thing called the law. I don’t know what living in a democracy has to do with anything to be honest. If we lived under Hitler or Tony Blair is the government brings a law out then you have to obey it even if you don’t agree with it. Right even though rac