ratios

ratios

by: Tash83 - 17-06-05 09:59

I worked in a private day nursery in n. yorks and i was appalled at the standard of care they provide to the extent that i left shortly after starting! One time i was left in the 0-1unit with 7 babies for 45 mins when my supervisor decided to take an extended lunch break!! I told her i wasnt happy but no one seemed to care! i asked what would happen if ofsted came and i was told no one would be allowed breaks, as we dont have the staff to cover, i was there for 6 weeks in that time i had no health and safety induction even though i asked for one on several occations! and there was not one time when the staff child ratio's were met! I had been a supervisor in my previous nursery and at the time was doing a management nvq so i was pretty clued up about the national standards as any one working in childcare should be, my supervisor didnt even know what they were nor did any other room leaders in the nursery, my supervsor even managed to give a 8 month old baby 10ml's of medised within 2 hours and when i pointed this out to her asked me not to tell anyone!! i was out of there like a shot!!

by: jakevin

Did you report them to ofsted. That situation i feel they should of been for the childrens safety. What would of happened if there had of been a fire, how would of you coped. I have been in that situation where there has been a fire in a nursery and i was the manager at the time. Because we were following the regulations everything was fine but i still had nightmares after. Please make sure that you follow ratios if not then let your manager know. think of the children they cant speak up but you can????

ratios - 18-06-05 08:55

by: jacqui29

I work in a private day nursery as a nursery assistant, due to qualify in August.The manager/deputy put themselves in numbers on a morning working with me in the baby room, as you can imagine with the phone ringing and having to speak to parents she is not in the room much, leaving me on my own with six sometimes seven babies. All credit to me but i have never had a child have a accident but it is only a matter of time. I have expressed my concerns but it falls on deaf ears, i do not know what to do,any ideas? Parents are starting to comment,and i am at the end of my tether.

ratios - 19-06-05 11:14

by: nannynick

I feel the regulations need to be rewritten and tightened up. I see far too often children being left in the care of one adult - because the nursery considers that its number of staff on premises that counts, not number of staff in a room.

My feeling is that if a member of staff can not see, hear and quickly touch a child then that child is not in their care. I feel there should be two members of staff in each room - walls and doors stop you hearing and seeing other children, so you can't be responsible for children in another room.

Also, when combining age groups together such as at the beginning and end of the day, I feel guidance needs to be more readily available. For instance how do you work out how many staff you need when you have babies and toddlers combined together - is it a 1:3.5 ratio?

Standard 2.9 There is a minimum of two adults on duty.
This needs rewriting, as it could be intrepeted as two adults in the entire nursery!

Standard 2.12 The adult:child ratios relate to staff time available to work directly with children.

This says to me that staff on Lunch are NOT included in ratio. Staff who are doing other things, such as cleaning are NOT included in ratio.

I can't be the only person to think this, can I?

ratios - 19-06-05 11:23

by: nannynick

theodore wrote:
we have
babies, 3months - 18months
toddlers, 18mths - 2yrs8mths
preschool, 2yrs8mths - 5yrs


Theodore, your rooms may need to be reoganised to make better use of staff. If you are in England then Ofsted regulations apply, and 1:3 for under 2's, 1:4 for 2-3's, 1:8 for 3-5's.

As you have 18 month olds combined with children aged 2, then you need to work out each day how many children are Under 2 and how many are aged 2-3 years. Then you have to have the right number of staff for each ratio, so keeping it simple, lets say you have 3 under 2's and 12 2-3's, this would mean having 4 member of staff (at all times).

Same would apply to pre-school, you can't use 1:8 ratio, instead you have to take into account those who are under 3, whom need a 1:4 ratio.

And yes, leaving 3 members of staff with 18 toddlers (18mths-2yrs8mths) would be a breach of Standard 2, and would probably have invalidated your insurance!

ratios - 05-07-05 11:23

by: kimmie

ratios should be kept at all times for the children's safety and also the safety of the staff too! that's why ratios are there in the first place is to protect children and the staff. kim xx :)

ratios - 06-09-05 21:26

by: johnr

My knowledge of this is it should be

babies 1-3 0-1
toddlers 1-3 1-3
pre school 1-8 3-5 yr olds

i think this is accurate check with ofsted though if you are NOT AT THE RATIOS OFSTED WILL BE VERY UNIMPRESSED

in my setting we are alwasy have more than enough staff any way we beleiev it better that way

ratios - 07-09-05 07:55

by: scarlett

ratios are as per the ofsted red books......

0 - 2 years 1 : 3
2 years 1 : 4
3-8 years 1 : 8

these are inthe ofsted books that they will ofsted you on.

ratios - 13-09-05 20:33

by: the-voice-of-reason

The 'red books' referred to in these messages are the Full day care national standards for under 8s day care and childminding. As baby-girl and scarlett quite rightly point out, the minimum staffing ratios are:
1:3 for under 2's
1:4 for 2-3's
1:8 for 3-7's.

However, you should remember that these are MINIMUM staffing ratios which represent a baseline of quality below which no provider may fall, i.e. satisfactory. It is good practice to maintain more staff to children ratios for the very obvious reasons already stated by other 'postees'.

ratios - 28-09-05 00:01

by: crusty clown

Ok girls so what is the situation if you have 26 children with 8 staff in the baby room 1-3 ratio do you not need another member of staff are you not 2 chioldren over even if they don't all come in at the end should you not have 9 staff members to account for those 26 children ? Am i the only person who seems to think this ?

ratios - 28-09-05 10:02

by: joshuajones

You are quite right, you should have 9 staff for 26 children under two. If they don't all turn up then someone is spare and lucky them, they could use that time to keep up with developmental records or help out somewhere else. But 8 staff with 26 under two's is not enough.

ratios - 28-09-05 12:16

by: jakevin

What sort of area are these children in as am i right in saying there should be no more than 12 under 2s in one area. Do you have a divider in this area so the children are not all together.

ratios - 28-09-05 16:36

by: scarlett

babies should be care for in groups of no more than 12.

if a room is divided it can be counted as a different group.

9 staff are required for 26 under twos.

and of course if there were more than 26 children of any age, then there needs to be a supernumery (extra for supervision)

ratios - 28-09-05 19:43

by: baby_girl

Each nursery has their own number limit for under 2's. For example my nursery can have up to 15 babies at any one time. I think it depends on space in unit.

ratios - 28-09-05 19:57

by: joshuajones

The limit of under two's in the nursery does not affect the guidelines in the standards. The standards stipulate that under two's should be cared for in groups of no more than 12. So in your nursery you could have two groups of 9 and 6, you should not have 15 babies in one room.

ratios - 30-09-05 15:52

by: johnr

you are right 26 babies is silly how can they possibly get continuity of care from that i dont believe ofsted would allow it

ratios - 01-10-05 19:32

by: crusty clown

We have one room divided into 3 sections we can take up to 32 babies in the entire room with a 1-3 ratio so we have 1 room is this rong then i am not aware of a limit of children in each group most we ever have had in 1 group is 10 3 mnths to when child walks is that right ?

ratios - 01-10-05 21:28

by: jakevin

The area should of been measured on registration to find out how many can be registered for the room. There can be no more than 12 under twos in a area at any one time. We had a room that was adequate for 15 under twos so we had a divider put in the room and had 7 one side and 8 the other. 32 sound alot for one room i cant imagine the level ofnoise.

ratios - 01-10-05 21:41

by: crusty clown

It is very noisy admittedly isn't it a certain amount of space per child or sumthing ? we haven't had 32 for a while so yeh it is 1 room but 3 gropus with 1 divider and a messy area still part of the same room does that make sense ? i guess it depends on the way you pursue the situation. the most we have at the moment is 26 and the leat we have is 11 and thats all together in the baby room adding all the groups up, we're not at our peak at the moment !

ratios - 29-10-05 23:41

by: crusty clown

Too right they have to be in the room how can someone be in numbers if they are in the office filling in paperwork or if they are answering the phone how can they be caring for the children.