Using decimal point for ratio

Using decimal point for ratio

by: Sodz - 01-05-08 21:46

I currently work at a setting where we were struggling to meet ratios due to such mixed age groups and staff shifts.  Recently management has said that ratios can now be worked out by decimal point.  I have never heard of this or used this before.  Has or does anyone work out ratios using this?

For example, if we have 16 3year olds and 10 2year olds in the preschool, we are able to work with 4 staff as the decimal ratio is 4.5 which is then rounded down to 4.  This is how the ratio is worked out...

number of 3 year olds x 0.125

number of 2 year olds x 0.25

Add totals to achieve exact ratio number.

I would like some feedback concerning this as I don't feel that this ratio is sufficient or justifiable.

by: perky

Hiya

I work in a Nursery where we have three rooms, baby, preschool and toddler.  If we had your situation we woudl have the etxra member of staff.  I run a nursery that is also a registered charity and so staffng has to be kept to a minimum.  But i have a system on excel where i can see exactly how many childen and therefore staff are required every half hour throughout the day, if it is a 'part of an adult' e.g 7 babies which would obviously be 2.333 staff, i would put the extra in as babies quite often need the extra, whereas if preschool had 17 with two members of staff, i would be happier to leave them rather than put an extra in when not really needed.  I tend to put an extra in if its more than .5, but it really depends on the sitation and the manager has to make that call.  We have been told that if its an emergency or for a short period i.e an hour or less, we can use a student or volunteer, providing we are happy that they are confident , which i think culd get you in trouble if you start to rely on it too much !!

i think the bottom line is that your staff need to be comfortable and even if you only need three staff in a room for ratios, sometimes because of the children the staff need the etxra support of additional members.

hope that helps !

by: joshuajones

The standards say minimum ratios must be adhered to at all times. That is 1:8, 1:4, 1:3.

If you have 10 2 year olds the ratio is 1:4 which means 3 staff not 2.

I have recently had this clarified by ofsted when my boss tried to do the same as your manager and I challenged him, we rang ofsted together on speaker phone and they confirmed to him that he was wrong that 10 2 year olds required 3 staff. 

The old standards and the EYFS are quite clear on ratios.

by: newsetting

I think you may have misunderstood the question. Of course i agree that 10 2 year olds need three staff on a 4 to 1 ratio. Problems occur when you have mixed ages in one room, which happens at one of my settings really early in the morning and late in the evening. For example, if you have 4 four year olds, one two year old and a baby, you could use the decimal point system. Its logical and it works.

4 4yr olds = 1/2 a person (on a 1:8 ratio)

2 yr old = 1/4 of a person (on the 1:4 ratio)

Baby = 1/3 of a person (on a 1:3 ratio)

 Adding that up (1/2 +1/4  +1/3) shows you need more than one member of staff. This can be done just as well with the decimal system REMEMBERING THAT YOU ALWAYS ROUND UP TO THE NEXT WHOLE NUMBER, meaning you will never be under ratio.

For babies, use 0.333

For 2-3 use 0.25

For 3-5 use 0.125 

by: newsetting

Ive just re-read your post. Where you are going wrong is rounding down. You always need to round UP. ALWAYS!!!!!

by: joshuajones

You might like to argue that with Ofsted.

My boss and I had this argument and he argued your point that you may only need half a member of staff with 4 3 year olds and half a member of staff with 2 2 year olds therefore 1 member of staff is ok. But it is not.

Ofsted stated categorically that the ratios MUST be adhered to, so even if you have mixed age groups children under 2 MUST be on a 1:3 etc. You don't need to use decimal points or fractions to work it out. Your scenario requires 2 staff, 1 for the 4 year olds and 1 for the under 2's.

4 4year olds, 3 2 year olds and a baby would require 3 staff sad but true, and no amount of decimal points and fractions will change that in Ofsteds eyes.

by: Sodz

Thanks for your feedback so far.

I've argued my point with management especially about how they round it down if the number is below point 5 as this shows we are under ratio but they said its perfectly acceptable.  For example, recently I had 20 3 year olds in and 8 2 year olds in during the day.  This works out to 4.5 which my manager said could be rounded down to 4 staff, which as far as I'm concerned is defo under ratio as we should've had 5.  

I've been looking to see if there is any written information about using decimals to work out ratio etc.  I want something concrete to show my manager as she claims to have clarified the decimal ratios with Ofsted and says its acceptable.

by: joshuajones

Why don't you ring ofsted yourself, ring the help line they will give you the answer you are looking for.

You are right on the numbers you had you needed 5 staff, with 4 you were under ratio.

The helpline will give you what you need. 

by: newsetting

the point is that if you use the figures i gave for the correct aged children and ALWAYS ROUND UP (not down) then you will always maintain the correct ratios. ie:

 If the answer comes out at 4.1 staff, you have 5 staff

If the answer comes out at 3.2 staff you have 4 staff.